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Episode 19

On The Journey From One Of Australia’s Most Wanted Criminals To One Of Australia’s Most Successful Real Estate Agents, Mastering Your Energy & Realising Your Optimum Capability.

Mat Steinwede | Principal | McGrath Central Coast

Ranking consistently as the number one agent in the McGrath Network, combined with leading one of the most successful sales teams in Australasia, Mat Steinwede is a highly sought-after property sales specialist and entrepreneur. With over 23 years’ experience dedicated solely to the real estate industry across the Central Coast of NSW, Mat has one of Australia’s best track records in property sales.

Exposed to the underbelly of Kings Cross when he was young, Mat was left homeless. With just the clothes he was wearing he moved to the Central Coast to try to start a better life. After gaining a job in real estate, Mat literally walked the streets for years, day after day, asking each home owner if they would like to sell. Over time he turned his life around. By applying a positive mindset, hard work and the law of attraction, Mat has established himself as an industry leader, achieving some of the best results in Australia.

Mat’s achievements have seen him recognised by global sales leaders and as a thought leader and emerge as an in-demand high-performance speaker. Besides being regarded as an expert on sales, business and improving your life through mastering your energy, Mat has helped thousands of people change their life and achieve what they want. In this episode Mat details his journey from one of Australia’s most wanted criminals to one of Australia’s most successful real estate agents, the benefits of connecting with your feminine side & the importance of realising your optimum capability.

Transcript

Anthony Denman:
Matt, welcome to the property Marketing Podcast.

Mat Steinwede:
Thanks, Anth.

Anthony Denman:
Got to say, mate, I don’t mind the odd croissant. I mean, I’m not big on them, but I could never see myself getting up at 2:00 AM to make them. How did that end up happening?

Mat Steinwede:
What do you mean with the croissants?

Anthony Denman:
Well, I’ve done a bit of research and it appears at some stage in your career, you were a pastry cook.

Mat Steinwede:
Oh, mate, that was a long time ago. Yeah, yeah. In Maroubra. I didn’t like it at all.

Anthony Denman:
I bet you didn’t. Certainly doesn’t seem to be you. I’ve got some quotes here, and after I finish, Matt, might be a good idea if you could give our listeners some context around those quotes. I’ve only got one, two, three, four, five, of them. “I started taking speed when I was 15 and ended up becoming a full-blown drug addict, a substance abusing maniac.”

Mat Steinwede:
Yeah.

Anthony Denman:
Next one, “I ended up becoming a standover man in the underworld. I had a couple of contracts taken out of my life. I’m going to be dead or in jail if I don’t do something soon.” This is my favorite. “Matt, you’re a mate of mine. If you want someone to tattoo your face, you’re going to have to go somewhere else.” I guess you’re glad you didn’t get through that one. “I was injecting pure speed all day everyday living in an abandoned warehouse whilst drawing a stick figure, which I call Duncan, all the while in a drug-fueled comatose.” And finally, “I ended up featuring on the television show, Australia’s Most Wanted and had to hand myself in.”

Mat Steinwede:
Yeah, there you go. That’s a wrap.

Anthony Denman:
Do you want to give us some context around all that, all of those quotes?

Mat Steinwede:
Yeah. I don’t know. I think it’s just like growing up at Maroubra. There wasn’t a lot of parental guidance, so you just got yourself in trouble. And then I left the beach when I was about 17, and then I don’t know if you’ve seen the movie, the Bra Boys. They’re all the guys I grew up with. And then went into town and started partying into the gay scene, and I walked into the gym one day, and well, just before that, a girl called Tanya, she was at Maroubra too. She used to go, one of the best surfers in Maroubra and tend to go, “Let’s go on Oxford Street and go partying.” I’m like, “Okay.” And before that, all I knew was Maroubra Seals Club and that that was it.

Mat Steinwede:
So we took our first … She goes, “Have you ever taken ecstasy?” I’m like, “No, I’ve been taking speed for a while.” And I was like, “No.” And she’s like, “Let’s take one and go in Oxford Street.” So we did and then it was like the best night ever, and we were laying in the middle of Oxford Street looking up at the sky after the nightclub, and I was like, “This is so good.” And I just never went back to the beach. I just literally just left and started partying, and then met a guy called Steven Scott, and then he took me to City Gym. City Gym was the only 24-hour gym in the … I don’t know if you remember the-

Anthony Denman:
I do. Yeah.

Mat Steinwede:
There’s all hardcore bodybuilders.

Anthony Denman:
Still there, isn’t it?

Mat Steinwede:
Yeah. So hardcore bodybuilders, all beautiful people used to go to City Gym, and I walked in there one day, and they were really big, and I said to Steven Scott like, “How did they get that big?” He’s like, “Steroids.” And I’m like, “Oh, yeah, can you get me some?” He’s like, “Yeah, I’ll get you some.” I was like, “How much was it?” “$400.” He got me, a course of steroids, and so I started taking those. And then I just got … One thing led to another, got a job on the doors on Oxford Street. But what I noticed in there is the people who were most well-connected and the most feared, they had the greatest currency. So I was like, “That’s what I want to be. I want to be one of those people.”

Mat Steinwede:
And so I didn’t try to network my way through it. I just happened to concentrate on myself and train and take drugs and party, and over time, I started to get to know more people, and then yeah, started to get deeper and deeper. I thought I was getting better, but I was just getting deeper. And after a while, I was so deep into the whole thing that, yeah, I would have been happy to live my life in that scene, I think. When I say in that scene, in that whole underworld, criminally type of vibe, but I wouldn’t have lived very long. Yeah, for sure.

Mat Steinwede:
And then one day, I went into a tattoo shop and one of the guys in there, Harry, he’s in jail now, he was a bikey, and I said, “Harry, I … He was a friend, so he wasn’t charging me for the tattoos or anything. But I said, “I want a tattoo that goes up my face, down my arm,” and he started doing my shoulder one, and he goes around my neck, he goes in the back, and I was like, “What are you doing? I want it to go up this way.” He’s like, “Can’t do it to you. You got to go.” I was like 19 or something this time, maybe 20. But he said, “You got to go somewhere else. I can’t do it to you.” And best thing that ever happened.

Anthony Denman:
Totally. Thank God.

Mat Steinwede:
Yeah. So after years and years-

Anthony Denman:
Well, thank the universe, I might say.

Mat Steinwede:
Yeah, for sure. And then I ended up working for this bunch of people, and anyway, they were opening another brothel, and they sent me up … This is a few years later. They sent me up to Terrigal, here, right across the road here, and to the nightclub to hook up with the bikers up there, not for any other reason apart from just hooking up with them and connecting with them. And then I met Karina, I met Dino that night. Yeah, and I was there to recruit girls for the brothel, basically, and I was really attracted to Karina, and at the end of the night, I asked for her number, and fortunately, she gave it to me, and the bouncer grabbed her. I didn’t know. I had no idea that the bouncer grabbed. It was her 18th birthday. She’d never been to a nightclub before, never been out. She was a Mormon. And the bouncer grabs her and says, “I hope you’re not going to give that guy your number.” And she’s like, “Yeah, I am.” He said, “Please, don’t, and don’t say I said anything because he’s the sort of guy that makes people disappear.”

Mat Steinwede:
But she didn’t listen and she gave me her number. I went back to Sydney. Everything fell apart big time, all sorts of stuff happened. I left the shotgun in a car. Someone thought I tried to set them up, which I didn’t. I just forgot it in there. And then all of this stuff, one thing led to another. There was so much, and I had great connections in the city. I didn’t really belong to anyone in particular, apart from the people that I sort of did work for, all the different groups that ran the undercurrent. I was quite well-connected to most of them. And because I was such a bad drug addict by then, and things were just falling apart, and a guy I knew sold me a whole lot of drugs that wasn’t real, and I had nothing to do with it. But I sold it to another friend thinking they were fine, and things like that, just on quite decent quantities. And all of that just really … You can’t do that in that world. And because I was in such a bad place myself, personally, their trust was quite low, became quite low apart from the people I’d known for a long time. So it just turned into this whole mess.

Mat Steinwede:
Anyway, I ended up becoming homeless because all of the things I was living off just went or dried up, and I just lived in this abandoned workshop for a while, and I was climbing in and out the window. I was under surveillance for a long time, and then I think the police were playing tricks on me as well. They’d knock on the door and pretend they were drunk and say things to me. All these things were going on, long story. But that night I went to Terrigal, it’s funny how things happened. That night I went to Terrigal, I met a guy called Dino. I rang Dino. This is probably six to 10 months later. I rang Dino, said, “Can you come pick me up? I’m going to be dead or in jail any day. I can feel it.” And he drove down. I literally got in his car and left and never came back again. And he put me at the back of his parents house for about nine months, and I was in a pretty deep psychosis.

Mat Steinwede:
You talk about drug addicts, when you see those drug addicts on the side of the road and they’re just like, literally just shooting up in the street, that was me. But I didn’t look like that. I somehow still looked okay, but I was like … My drug habit was pretty massive, but it was so bad that I would do anything to get drugs. So Dino put me out the back of his parents’ house and lots of things happened, like getting me from there to nine months later was a feat and a half because I was a bit scattered as well. One night I stole his car. I didn’t steal it, I took his car, his parents’ car because his parents lived in the front house, and then I was in the room at the back, and I took his parents’ car, and I was driving down to Terrigal down here, because he lived in Terrigal, and I thought the police were winding my seat back. He was going like this, and I was like, “Wow,” and I was spinning out so badly, and I was still high on drugs by then as well.

Mat Steinwede:
And I got to the car park of the Surf Club, and I literally ran out of the car and ran all the way back home and left his car with the doors open. And then the next day, because his parents are really longstanding Terrigal people, and the next day, the surf club rings his dad and said, “Alan, I don’t know why your car’s here with the doors open,” and Dino’s like, “Mate, what are you doing?”

Mat Steinwede:
So that was just one of so many things that happened. But one day I was driving back from somewhere. I can’t remember where it was, and I was as low as you can physically picture it, as low as low could be, and out of nowhere … And Dino’s big. He makes me look small. He’s a big guy, tall, big. He turns to me and said, “Matt, make me a promise. Promise me you won’t kill yourself.” And that day, and I’m not making this up for the purpose of the podcast, I had a gun at home, and that day, I was going home to shoot myself. And when he said that, I literally when, “Wow.” I said, “I won’t. I promise you I won’t.” And I didn’t. And so from that time, things didn’t start to turn around instantly. But I rang an ex-girlfriend and I said to Lisa I’m in a bit of trouble. She said, “Matt, you’re in so much trouble. You have left the biggest mess in Sydney.” Because you just can’t leave what I was involved in easily. You just can’t. I left stuff everywhere, and I said, “Well, what should I do?” And she goes, “Well, why don’t you get into real estate?”

Mat Steinwede:
And I genuinely think she thought real estate agents were dodgy or criminals. That’s why I’d be good fit. And I grabbed literally grabbed the Yellow Pages once I got off the phone from her, and I just rang everyone in the Yellow Pages and asked them if they had a traineeship. And then I’d go and ask people in offices. I had no idea what real estate was at all, and this lady just gave me a start in a Killarney Vale, and she just said, “Yeah, I’ll give you a start.” So Dino bought me a pair of shoes, pair of pants and a polo top, and because you got to remember, I left with the clothes I was wearing. I didn’t have anything. And I had no money, no ID, no nothing. And the lady said, “If you can get some clothes, you can start door knocking.” And then I did, and he used to drop me to work every day, and I used to walk the streets all day every day asking if people would sell their house from suburb to suburb.

Mat Steinwede:
And then after about a year of that, I got offered another job across the road. So I went to there, and then around then, I was engaged to Karina by this time, and then I appeared on Australia’s Most Wanted, and I had to go hand myself back in. But what happened was I caught the bus home because I didn’t have a car for at least a year and a half, maybe a year and a half in real estate. I’d just get a bus to work and walk every day. And I got home, and Ray, who owned a fish and chip shop in Killarney Vale, he was an ex-heroin dealer from the cross, and one of those old hardened criminals who’d left the city. We used to talk quite a bit, and he rings me up, and I was renting.

Mat Steinwede:
So the lady who gave me a job put me in a caravan on her property. So I lived there for a while. And then after a while, Karina’s family got me a room in this elderly lady’s house, and I used to rent the room from her overtime. And I got home to Tina’s house, and the phone rang and I answered it, Ray goes, “Hey, Matt, it’s Ray from the fish and chip shop.” He was on methadone and he got those methadone type vibes, and he goes, “Mate.” I’m like Ray, “How on earth did you get this number?” I was in hiding. I really was for many reasons. I didn’t go back to Sydney for about 15 years after because I had a lot of stuff I didn’t sort out. And then he said, “You’ve just been on Australia’s Most Wanted, and I’m like, “Oh, bugger. Bloody hell.” So Karina’s dad literally knocked on the door five minutes after that. Their whole family, six kids, mum and dad were all watching TV and I come on.

Mat Steinwede:
So yeah, I had to hand myself back in, and I went to Sydney straightaway, handed myself back in. When I was sitting there to be charged, this girl who I used to see, she walked in in a full police uniform and said she was an undercover cop, because I was under surveillance. And I looked at her, and I was like … And she looked at me, and she just kept walking. So obviously, I was just a thing to … She was undercover just getting more info, but I didn’t see her since, I saw her then. And then I went to court, and then Karina’s mum testified and the old lady testified, and Karina’s mum was crying, and Tina was like 85 or something, and Tina’s like, “He’s such a lovely boy. He helps me with my washing, and he does this and does that.”

Mat Steinwede:
Anyway, the end of all of that, you know how there’s sliding moments, I think angels intervened, I really do, because the judge who was a lady, she sat there and she was like this, and she looks at me and she goes, “Matt, you should be going to jail for quite a few years today.” She said, “But,” she goes, “I just see some good in you. I’m going to give you a second chance.” She said, “But I promise you, if you’re back, you will go away for most of your life.” That’s what she said to me. And I walked out of the courtroom. She gave me community service for, I don’t know, a year or two, which I did, and it took me eight years to pay back all the fines she gave me. But I rang Dino literally as I walked out of the court house and I said, “Dino, I’m going to make you a promise. I’m going to become Australia’s number one agent.” And that promise has never left me.

Anthony Denman:
Some people would say, Matt, that there’s quite a few similarities between being a criminal and being a real estate agent. Would nonetheless, being well-connected, I think.

Mat Steinwede:
Yeah.

Anthony Denman:
Were there any lessons that you’ve learnt?

Mat Steinwede:
Yeah.

Anthony Denman:
Yeah? That you were able to transition to selling real estate?

Mat Steinwede:
Yeah, for sure. I rang Dino about maybe another year into it and I said, “Mate, this is the same as selling drugs, but it’s just legal. That’s all it is.” And he’s like, “But life is a bit like that as well.” So I wake up every day and I’ve got to go find my next thing to live on. And I think life is the same. It runs in parallel with your effort. So being number one in real estate or being number one as any business is the same. Plumber, it baffles me why plumbers or any business like that trade, electricians, don’t prospect for an hour a day. Why don’t they go and knock on doors of the jobs they want to do and say, “Hey, I’m Mike, from SEL Electricity. I know you might have a contractor doing your work right now. I just want to give you a card, introduce myself. If for any reason the other people let you down, can you give me a call?”

Mat Steinwede:
And I reckon business, we talk about business failing, small businesses failing, it’s because they don’t prospect. That’s why, and it’s exactly the same, whether you’re a drug dealer, or you’re a real estate agent, or you’re a business owner, the principle is the same, you need people who want to deal with you, and you need to build relationships. So I was really well-connected in that old world, but I’m really well-connected in this world as well, just like you, Ant, I know what your business is like. And having those people want to do business with you, it’s just a numbers game. That’s all it is. It’s not a skill game, by the way. Maybe in your business, a lot has to do with the skill on how you present things and the concepts that you have. But that’s what you choose to do. That’s what you align yourself with.

Mat Steinwede:
You can be an okay real estate agent, but have a lot of connections, a lot of numbers, and you will do really, really well. And any business, think of a florist, I drive around all day thinking of these things. So think of a florist. If you need flowers, you don’t really have a connection with a florist, you just get the phone book and dial up a florist. But imagine the florist had 10,000 homes around their shop, and they continually prospected to those 10,000 homes. Flowers, those sort of things, everyone will spend $50 on a bunch of flowers, even just because. Because, “Oh, I’ll get Tara a bunch of flowers.” Or, “I’ll send a bunch of flowers to my PA today because they’re just the top of mind.” Imagine how you could triple your business, I reckon, by having a farm area around your florist shop, and helping people know what the new flowers are in, what colors are in, whatever new stocks just arrive, whatever. Every month, something went out to them. Imagine what that would do to your business.

Mat Steinwede:
Do you know if you contact 40 people a day, five days a week, 40 people a day, five days a week, that adds up to 9,680 or 9600 people per year. So forget business skill, forget business, whatever, if you just did sheer numbers, made an effort to go out and meet 40 people a day or call 40 people, that would be almost 10,000 new contacts or repeat contacts every year. Imagine what would happen to your business. It would explode, explode. That’s all it is.

Anthony Denman:
There’s a little bit more to it than that, I’m sure, and we’ll dig into that. We’ll dig into that now. But I love that energy and that enthusiasm. In fact, it’s kind of a nice segue because for those of you who don’t know, Killarney Vale is a lower socio economic suburb. I mean, now, not so much. But certainly, when you were walking door to door because you didn’t have a car, and I just think that I’ll say that again, walking door to door because you didn’t have a car. I mean, seriously. In fact, I’ve got to say it’s a little bit like not having a car, a little bit like not having a boat. Okay? And I just want you, if you don’t mind, I know you’ve got this great story about, I think it was a Portuguese navy admiral who burnt his boats.

Mat Steinwede:
Burned his boats.

Anthony Denman:
Burnt his boats. Can you tell us that story?

Mat Steinwede:
Yeah, Hernendo Cortes, his name and it was in the 1500s, and he had an idea. He wanted to go steal the world’s richest treasure, it’s a true story, from Cuba. So Cuba was the richest country at the time, had the greatest treasures. So he gathered up 500 sailors, the best people in his army, and he said, “Look, I want to go take the world. We’re going to fight them, take the treasure, come home. We’ll be like heroes, amazing.” And they were like, “Yes, yes. Let’s do it. Let’s do it.” So he got 11 ships, the old ones with all the sails, and then they went halfway across the world.

Mat Steinwede:
As they got closer, the men started to doubt. The men were like, “I don’t think it’s a good idea. We might die.” Hernendo was like, “There’s no way we will win with this amount of doubt.” And he must have been pretty insightful to sort of say, “With that energy, we won’t win.” So what he did is he pulled up just out of site of Cuba and he stayed there for three days and nights, and he just sat, did nothing. And after the third day, and the men were all like, “We really should go back to our families, and it’s been great trip – let’s go home. Much safer, and he stood up and he ordered every man from every boat into the little boats, the push off boats, the attack boats, and they all said, “Hernendo, Hernendo, what are you doing? We don’t want to do it. We will get beat, blah, blah, blah. He ordered them all in.

Mat Steinwede:
So when they pushed off, he stood up, and he screamed out, “Burn the boats.” He said, “Burn the boats, every boat.” And the men are like, “Are you crazy? Are you crazy? What’s going to happen to us? We will die. Blah, blah, blah.” He set fire to all of their 11 boats and he said, “Men, we have no other option but to win and take their boats now.” And he stormed the beach. They’re outnumbered three to one, and you know what, they won. They won. They took their treasure, took their boats, and went home.

Anthony Denman:
I love that story because, I mean, essentially, shifting the paradigm from want to need, right? So after you handed yourself in, and to finding out you’re featured on Australia’s Most Wanted. You face judgment day, you talked about that. Said you walked out of the courtroom, you rang Dino, and you said to him, “I’m going to be Australia’s most successful real estate agent.” Was that the moment that you you felt like you no longer had a boat and you had to storm the beach and win the treasure?

Mat Steinwede:
Yeah, I didn’t have a boat anyway. Yeah, it was probably that time when I’m like, “It’s now or never.” Literally, I’ll just be, “I have to make something of myself legally.” I had a lot to turn around though. Even inside, being a drug addict for so long, and then just the mental instability that comes with that, the emotional instability, the lack of finance, I just had no money. Like I said, it took me eight years to pay back all the fines. I had to do community service, plus try and hold down a job. Yeah. Yeah. I think it just gave me the anchor just never to give up either. I think people quite often say, “I’m in real estate. The market’s not really good. I’m going to leave.” And I’m like, “Why?”

Mat Steinwede:
I never thought about the market, ever. As years went on, I learned more about the market. But the little office that I worked for, Peter Brand Real Estate after Coastal Waters, there was just a dad and a son and me and the receptionist, and then they went away on holidays, and they’d sell about four properties a month, and the commission was about $4,000 back then. And he went on holidays, and he came back, and we used to have an old whiteboard with these houses that were sold. He came back, and I’d filled up the entire whiteboard with sales, all of it. And he’s like, “What has happened? How did you even do that?” And in my brain, I’m like, “Well, how would you not? Because that’s our job.” Do you get what I mean? I just really wonder how sometimes people … It all depends on what you want to be. I just wanted to learn how to become the best at that.

Mat Steinwede:
But I see people waste a lot of time as well. They waste a lot of time doing things that really don’t move their business forward, and I think our job well mine anyway is all about doing tasks that move your business forward. And people get stuck being busy. People complain about life, people complain about the market, all these things they can’t control, even through this whole Coronavirus thing, my life hasn’t changed much at all. I literally even bedded down further into succeeding. When the GFC came, sure, it was scary at first, but then I’m like, “Well, someone has to do well in any market.” And you just got to relearn your skillset for that particular time. And I think people who have that mind, provided you’re in the career that you want, there’s always someone successful in any condition.

Anthony Denman:
I want to talk about Brian Tracy. For those of you who don’t know, an old school kind of hard working, ethics-minded person, teacher, if you like, a little bit like Tom Hopkins, Tony Robbins, that style of motivational teacher, if you like. And I know that you kind of advocating a conscious mind type of motivational behaviour. I’m really interested in how you … Because that’s where you began. I mean, you began, I think, taking some inspiration from Brian Tracy, and then you found Esther Hicks. Esther Hicks, for those of you who don’t know, advocates an idea called the law of attraction. Without sort of oversimplifying it, this idea that the universe has your back, and your inner being is the most powerful force, and ultimately, will dictate your outcome, even against your self-sabotaging self, if you like. Yeah, so I’m just interested in how you kind of transition from one to the other, even how you reconcile both of those, that style of teaching because they’re quite different.

Mat Steinwede:
Yeah, I think Brian Tracy was like, “Oh, okay, there’s goal-setting and there’s thing he taught me about that. Whereas before, I didn’t know, and I never knew what a goal was, never really even thought about you need to be shooting for this, even though you sort of do it because you’d say, “I want to be the biggest in the gym, or I want to be the biggest connected criminal,” whatever. I didn’t know about it though, intentionally saying, “How do I make life work around achieving this?”

Mat Steinwede:
After a while, Brian Tracy and Tom Hopkins, and all of those were like … They’re all good, but it gets to a point where you heard it all before. And then Esther Hicks, I somehow found out about Esther Hicks, and as soon as I learned about energy, I was like, “That’s the secret.” It was actually the secret movie, I think, maybe. Can’t remember. But I watched that secret movie many times. That’s good to hear. But then Esther Hicks goes right down here, and our energy and our emotions and our thought all linked together to attract things into our life, and the best way that you can explain that is if you’re angry with somebody, and I mean, you have a blow up, you’re screaming at our partner or your kids or whatever, and you’re angry as anything, you actually feel like a bit out of alignment after it, that you feel like, “I shouldn’t have done that.” And if things don’t go right when you’re in that energy of angry, or frustrated, or worry, or think about worrying about stuff, usually like pushes the thing away that you want, that anxiety, and then nothing good comes when you’re anxious.

Mat Steinwede:
And I started to realize that, our emotions are constantly talking to us. And when you feel good, when you feel peace of mind, you’re not thankful, but you’re appreciating something, think about when you’re with your kid, and you’re in that moment, and you feel great, things are going good, life is in a good space. It’s amazing how that call that you’ve been waiting on will come then. Oh G’day Ant I just wanted to get the project started, and you’re like, well, yesterday, you were just trying to make it happen. But when you relax around it, it’s interesting how many things that flowing into your world that you actually wanted before, trying to make it happen. And I really started to see it in my own life. So if I wanted this, who did I need to become to get that? But also remaining emotionally steady is the key to, I think achieving the things that you want.

Mat Steinwede:
And we all know those people who are addicted to drama in their life, you look at their lives, they’re terrible, the negative people, the dramatic people, the ones that look on the side of pessimism as opposed to optimistic. You don’t like being around them. It’s even repelling being near them. So it’s definitely an energy world, and the more I learned about it, that’s all I really focus on now.

Anthony Denman:
It’s really interesting, Esther Hicks takes what is essentially a very metaphysical idea, the universe having in your back, and she puts a rational framework around it, which is that emotional guidance scale, which is really helpful, right? Because when you’re talking about at the top end of that scale being positivity, so feeling joyous, feeling passionate, feeling excited, feeling optimistic, if you can constantly kind of remind yourself, that’s how you need to be feeling as opposed to negative, frustrated, overwhelmed, angry, pessimistic. So you take yourself out of that bottom end of the emotional guidance scale, keep yourself at the top end of it, believe that the universe has your back, and good things will come. I believe in that. I think that’s really good, really positive thinking.

Mat Steinwede:
Yeah, and even if people don’t believe in it or don’t know it, all they have to do is observe themselves. So we could explain that all day long. It’s a hard thing to hear and go on, “Oh.” It might spark their interest. But all you need to do is over a week, almost step out of yourself from it and observe the results that you’re achieving and how you’re feeling. So if you’re overwhelmed, overwhelmed is a great one, you get busy, you get overwhelmed. You know when people say, “So busy at the moment, so busy. I’m so busy.” That’s great. What that says to me is overwhelmed emotion is coming to you, and when you get fully overwhelmed, your results start to go backwards.

Mat Steinwede:
And even in the gym, flexibility. Your emotions control your whole body. When you’re feeling great, you rarely get injured, you have more energy, you feel like you’re in sync, nice people around you. Even if someone says something that’s not that great, doesn’t matter, their problem. But when you’re off that, and you don’t feel like in sync with the natural flow around you, you know when you sound still a bit off today, feel like not running on all cylinders today, I’m not talking sick, I’m just talking about energetically, you observe what comes to you. It doesn’t flow the same. And I encourage everyone to start being more of an observer of them than a being act, being in it.

Anthony Denman:
Do you meditate?

Mat Steinwede:
No.

Anthony Denman:
You’re pretty direct about the answer to that question.

Mat Steinwede:
Yeah. No, because I just can’t do it. I see my gym as meditation.

Anthony Denman:
Yeah, okay.

Mat Steinwede:
Yeah. Sitting there like this with my eyes closed for 15 minutes is incredibly hard for me.

Anthony Denman:
Can I ask, what was it like being a practicing Mormon?

Mat Steinwede:
Good. I liked it.

Anthony Denman:
Were there any similarities in Mormonism and the teachings of Esther Hicks?

Mat Steinwede:
Yes, lots. In the Bible, it’s either in the Bible or the Book of Mormon, it says in there that we can command the elements. I don’t know the exact words, but vibrationally we can command the elements to change, and that’s just one verse in millions in there. But I was like, “Wow, that’s so true.” It also says in there, “If you’ve got a faith as a grain of a mustard seed, you can do all things.” And it talks about doubt and faith all the time, belief. Esther Hicks is the same, expectation, doubt. Have you ever heard a lady, her name is Helene Hadsell?

Anthony Denman:
No, I don’t know.

Mat Steinwede:
She’s won every competition she’s ever entered her entire life. She’s about 80 years old, 70 something years old. She’s won every one.

Anthony Denman:
No way.

Mat Steinwede:
Yeah. And she says what she used to do is enter the competition. Her expectation is that high about winning this competition since she was a young girl, and she knew she was going to win. She would go home and wait for the people to ring her to tell her she’s won.

Anthony Denman:
That’s crazy.

Mat Steinwede:
She would. And she says this, “If you have any doubt whatsoever, the result will not find you.”

Anthony Denman:
We should probably tell our listeners why you were a practicing Mormon. I mean, are you still a practicing Mormon?

Mat Steinwede:
No, no. I don’t go to church. But I just joined the Mormon, because Karina’s parent sent her to Queensland to get her away from me. So I thought, “Bugger them, I’ll just join the church and then they’ll like me”

Anthony Denman:
What drives you do want to help so many people?

Mat Steinwede:
I just feel like I’ve done quite a bit, and I’ve had heaps of people help me.

Anthony Denman:
Can I ask you, and I want you to tell me about the time that you were met at the door. You’re going to try and list a property in Wamberal, which would you ended up owning pretty well thoroughly. I think you had 50% of the market there at some stage. Or you still do?

Mat Steinwede:
Yeah. Still do.

Anthony Denman:
I’m not sure. So yeah, anyway, a vendor met you at the door of his home. He just scoffed down a whole bunch of takeaway fish and chips. And he had the bits of-

Mat Steinwede:
yeah

Anthony Denman:
… fish and chip.

Mat Steinwede:
Yeah.

Anthony Denman:
He said, “Matt, that was the best bit of marketing I’ve seen in my life. You’ve got the listing.”

Mat Steinwede:
Yeah.

Anthony Denman:
What’s the story behind that one?

Mat Steinwede:
It was one of Wamberal’s best property. 20 years before, I’d gone up to Mr. and Mrs. Harding in Calais Road, and I walked down the stairs, and I thought to myself, “One day I’m going to list this house. This is awesome.” The house was just a big old classic house, but with views, big block, awesome house. Anyway, they died quite a few years later, like 15 years later or something. And then of course, I stayed in contact with them for so long. I thought, “Surely the family will call me.” And no one called me. Years went by, I’m like, “I wonder what’s happening with that house.” And then I was in another house down the road, and then the owners of that house said, “I just saw Tim Andrews walk out of the Harding’s house yesterday.” I was like, “What?” That’s my main competitor. I was like, “You’re joking.”

Mat Steinwede:
And you know when you’re in a house and you just can’t concentrate anymore, and you’re just like, “I’ve got to get out.” So I rang. No. Sorry. Sorry. Before that happened, I got a call maybe two weeks before, and the guy goes, “Yes. Hello. It’s Philip Harding here. I’d just like to know how much this property sold for.” And I’m like, “Philip Harding.” I’m like, “Are you related to the Harding’s in Calais Road?” “Yes, I’m the son. We’re thinking about selling the family home and blah, blah.” And I’m like, “What, this has been a life-long, career-long focus of mine.” And I told him how much the house was, and I said, “Can I come around and meet you and give you an update on the market?” “No, no, no, we’re fine. Thanks very much, blah, blah.” And that’s when I went into the other people’s house like two weeks later. They told me Tim Andrews walked out of there, and I was like, “You’re joking.” Because he’s a good agent, bulldozer and a half, and I’m like, “What the hell is he doing in there?”

Mat Steinwede:
So I went out, I rang Philip, and I said, “Philip, it’s Matt from McGrath.” He’s like, “what” Couldn’t remember me. I said, because he asked me to email him when he rang me and I emailed him everything, and he never responded, and I was like, “Did you get an email I sent?” He’s like, “Oh, yes, yes. But it really meant nothing to me.” And I was like, “Goodness.” I said, “Can I just pop around, say hello.” He’s like, “All right.” So I was like two houses down. I just drove down and saw him. As we walked around the house, he goes, “Matt, I’ve got to tell you, my brother, the doctor, he’s decided to give the house to another agent.” And I’m like, “Really?”

Mat Steinwede:
I put in that much work with this. I’ve been reports and caught up with the … I knew the parents very well by the end of it. I had no relationship with the kids, but I was devastated. I was like, “Oh, who?” And he told me this is some random agent. And I was like, “Why would you list the house with him?” And he said, “Well, my brother said he’s a nice fellow, just list the house with him.” And I’m like, “That’s not a reason. Why would you give the house to him?” By the end of it, he goes, “Look, Matt, I like you. Why don’t you put together a proposal, and I’ll give it to my brothers and sisters at our next family meeting.” So I did that, and I put together the king of all proposals. I spent days on this thing. Dropped it around to him, and he rings me up the next day or two and he goes, “Look, I don’t think my brother and my sister,” who’s an accountant, was quite a wealthy old money family, “I don’t think they’re going to like a couple of things in here.” He goes, “I want to give you a hand. Can you come back around and I’ll help you with it?”

Mat Steinwede:
And I was like, “Okay, yes.” “But look, I really want to say that there’s not a great chance you’re going to get the house.” And I was like, “Okay.” It was at 6:00 say on Thursday night. I rang him at 5:45 and said to him, “Philip, do you mind if I … You’re still on track for me to come over?” He says, “Look, I’d rather you didn’t. I’m really not in the best of spirits at the moment.” I said, “Why?” He goes, “Look, you won’t believe it. I’ve gone up to get my fish and chips from the shop, and they’ve made my dinner.” And he talks like this. He goes, “They’ve made my fish and chips. And then I was very excited. And then they proceeded to tell me they have no lemon.” And I’m on the phone going, “Is this a joke, honestly?” And I was like, “Oh, that’s terrible.” He’s like, “Yes, look, I just not in a frame of mind to see you.” And I’ve been all day waiting to seen him, and I said, “Do you mind if I just pop over. Just it’ll take two minutes.” “Look, Matt, I’m really, really not in the mood for it.” I said, “I can just swing by.” And he goes, “All right, well, just come over and we’ll just make it very quick.”

Mat Steinwede:
So a rang a guy who works with me. I said, “Jimmy, can you please go and get a lemon, drive it straight over to the Harding’s house, give it to them before I get there. I’m there in 10 minutes.” So he did. And the house had this pointy balcony, and I walk up the driveway, and Philip is standing there, and he goes, “That was the best piece of marketing I’ve ever seen in my life. I’ve called my brothers and sisters and talked, said this is the people we need to be doing business with.” And I got the listing. I was like, “Yes.” all for the lemon.

Anthony Denman:
Oh, man. I love your accent. You really nailed it. Sounded like Prince Charles, actually.

Mat Steinwede:
Yeah, that’s what they sounded like. Do you know there’s wealthy country, Polished people?

Anthony Denman:
I do. I do. I do. So what really matters there is the care factor, right?

Mat Steinwede:
Yeah.

Anthony Denman:
So it’s not so much about scripts and dialogues for you?

Mat Steinwede:
No. I think they give you confidence in understanding what people say. But you’re my friend, as well as a business associate. If I ring anything, I don’t practice scripts and dialogues before ring in. You don’t go to dinner with someone and practice scripts and dialogues. You’ve got to understand your craft, for sure, and I think that’s what scripts and dialogues do more, help you understand the things that you’re offering people, so you can transfer it with confidence. But I think people really like dealing with just people, normal people.

Mat Steinwede:
One of the things I really took away with meeting John McGrath for the first time many, many, many years ago is how normal he was. And it really struck a chord with me that I came away from the catch up with him because I sent him a video 20 something years ago, and he said come down to meet him. And he’s such a normal person, doesn’t try and sell, doesn’t … Sure, he’s a salesman, but his vibe is really cool and connected. I learned a lot from that. And although I practice scripts and dialogues for many, many, many, many years, and all new salespeople should, but I think genuinely, once you know or understand what you’re talking about, you don’t need scripts and dialogues because it’s about helping people with a solution. And I think salespeople sometimes are so eager to sell to people, rather than listen and understand. People will tell you the answers when you listen to them enough.

Anthony Denman:
And if you care enough.

Mat Steinwede:
Yeah.

Anthony Denman:
I just wonder interesting sideline here, and unfortunately, no one can see Matt, but I’ll give you his contact details at the end and you can go and have a look at the guy. Big sort of strapping lad he is, and you’ve heard the story about the underworld and everything that went on there. But as a sort of juxtapose to that, you really love girls handbags-

Mat Steinwede:
I do.

Anthony Denman:
… shoes-

Mat Steinwede:
I do.

Anthony Denman:
… and hairstyles. Do you think that sort of been in touch with your feminine side helps you be better at caring?

Mat Steinwede:
It does. I think women make a lot of the decisions in processes of buying in general, whether it’s a house or car or whatever else, and I always felt weird in a suit. This is about as suited up as I get, a shirt. When I used to wear a tie, I felt like I was trying to be someone. The thing when I was in a home and I’ll present to a lady every day of the week and the husband not be there because I like … If she connects with you, then she’ll usually drive it the way that she feels is best for the family and her. But I felt when I was in a jacket and a thing, I felt separation. I always get nice shirts, and they’re was pressed nicely, but I have my sleeves rolled up all the time. It’s that borderline between professional and casual, and I definitely feel like that feminine side is a plus for me.

Mat Steinwede:
Like yesterday, I was presenting to a lady who lives at McMasters, and she said, “My friend was right.” Another lady, she said, “My friend was right.” She said, “I really like you. You’re straightforward, you’re easy.” And the people say that a lot, and sometimes people have a different perception before they meet me because they think I’m going to be some power-hungry real estate agent, blah, blah when quite often I’m not. And Warren Buffett said that humility disarms, and it’s so true, and humility is your greatest tool. So combine that with a bit of your feminine side, your authentic side, you don’t try and be feminine if you’re not. You’ve gonna gel with other people. But I like that feminine side of me. I wear women’s deodorant because it’s like, I like the smell. Yeah. It’s just handbags, hairstyles and shoes, I just liked those things in women. And so my partner, Tara, I love shopping for her. It’s the best.

Anthony Denman:
You sort of go on record of saying that flash cars, I mean, I think the thing with real estate agents where I grew up not far from you on the sunnier side of the tracks, well, in fact, Bondi in the ’70s wasn’t really much sunnier than Maroubra in the 70’s

Mat Steinwede:
Yeah.

Anthony Denman:
But I think you’re a bit younger, actually, than I am. But yeah, growing up in the eastern suburbs and being around real estate agents and property sort of all my life there, everyone, the thing was, right, the mandate was, the MO was if you don’t have a really hot-looking expensive car, how … Sorry. You have to have a really expensive, flashy car to give the vendor confidence that you’re a successful real estate agent.

Mat Steinwede:
Yeah. I used to have this out old ute lately. In the last few years, we had a company here. And I have a good friend, Garry Teak, who’s a billionaire, and another guy who’s super wealthy, who owns a lot of land in here. Dino is from Windsor, but he has hundreds of acres of residential land in Sydney. I had two appointments back to back, one with Gary, one with Dino, and I took the ute. Yeah. Both of them complimented me on the car. “I love your car.” I’m like, “Yeah, thanks.” It was a $5,000 hilux ute.” Yeah. I think sometimes flashy things are more for your own ego. People just care about what you’re going to do for them.

Anthony Denman:
I agree. I think where I grew up, a lot of the agents just told themselves that so they could justify spending the money on something. So for me personally, it’s never been about cars. I mean, I always feel like they look great in the showroom. But as soon as you drive them out of the showroom, and Karen laughs at me when I say this, but I drive straight into a gutter. They depreciate, right?

Mat Steinwede:
Yeah, for sure.

Anthony Denman:
So I can’t see any value in a flasthe car. Unless, of course, you got more money than you know what to do with, and I’m sure there’s quite a few people listening who are lucky enough to be in that position. And they love cars and good luck to them. It’s been a while since I actually … It’s been a long time since I did shopping of any kind. I’m lucky, right, because my partner does all of the food shopping and stuff, which is great. Karen, I love you, I appreciate that. You know I do. I’m very grateful for that. I think the last time or one of last times I was in Cole’s down at Kincumber, for those of you don’t who know, Matt and I live in the same district, same area. I saw you, right, down there. You probably don’t remember this. But your trolley, right, mine’s got sort of all the usual things in it. You should expect. I’ll never forget this. Your trolley was full, like half full of canned tuna.

Mat Steinwede:
I go through different fads

Anthony Denman:
That was it, man. Seriously, that’s some serious discipline around diet.

Mat Steinwede:
Oh, it’s interesting how many people go, “I need to go to the gym.” They might have had the Christmas overflow, or they might have had whatever, or they just might not have been active, and it’s actually the wrong thing. It’s like they need to start with the nutrition. Nutrition’s 80% of everything, energy management, fitness, all of that, and you get the nutrition right, the rest will follow. And so I stick to a fairly … I took a month off just recently and just at … I don’t need a lot of rubbish, but pizza and bits and pieces, and I doubled my body fat percentage. I usually run at about 7%, maybe to eight. But somewhere there, and I hold that fairly consistently. But last month, I was getting a bit tired, and I thought, “I’ll just have a bit of a reset.”

Mat Steinwede:
And it’s interesting how even the smallest changes in diet can equal a lot of body fat increase, and middle aged men like myself, so I’m 48 years old, it’s interesting how many men are out of shape. And we’re talking about someone will go and spend $300,000 on a car, and wash it, and take care of it, and drive it to feel good as an exterior. We already have a Ferrari. We have an amazing instrument that we’re given every day to get up and start doing things. It’s interesting how little attention people give it. So people are unwilling to have a gym membership for a year because it’s expensive, so 700 bucks. But they’ll go buy a car worth 130,000 or 230,000. Really intrigues me.

Anthony Denman:
Just wanted to ask you, why did you choose to join McGrath as opposed to another franchise?

Mat Steinwede:
We used to be Raine and Horne a long time ago, and I just like John, basically. When I first got into real estate, Karina’s mum, I heard about John McGrath, and he’s the king of real estate. That was like 25 years ago. And she said, “Why don’t you send the video tape to him, see if he’ll meet with you.” And I was like, “Sounds good.” So you know the big old recordings used to sit them on your shoulder? So she had one of them. And then I sent him a videotape. I said, “Hi, Mr. McGrath. I know you’re the king of real estate. Would you be interested in meeting with me at some point?” And then on that video tape, the young ones won’t even know what a videotape is. But it’s like they’re that big.

Anthony Denman:
It’s about the size of a football almost.

Mat Steinwede:
Yeah. On there, I wrote, “This will take one minute and 55 seconds of your life to watch, but it could make a wealth of difference to your life, and possibly mine.” And so he rang me like two weeks later and said, “Hi Matt, it’s John McGrath. That’s the best piece of marketing I’ve seen in 18 years. Can you come down and meet with me?” So I did, and that’s where it all started. I met with him.

Anthony Denman:
Wow.

Mat Steinwede:
I had breakfast with him, and then blah, blah, and then I saw him in a seminar somewhere a few years later, and I saw him somewhere else. I always just loved McGrath, like back then it was like the Chicago Bulls of real estate. And our franchise agreement had just run out for Raine and Horne. This is years later, like seven years later or something. I don’t know how long, but a while. And so a five-year agreement just ran out, and I rang him and said, “John, would you franchise?” And I got to know him reasonably well by this point, not friends, but just see him at seminars. I was speaking by this time at some seminars that he would be speaking at, and then he goes, he’s like, “Matt, we’re years away from even thinking about franchising.” He said, “Why?” I said, “Well, our agreement’s just run out. Would you consider us?” And he said, “Mattie, let’s do it.” On the phone call, he goes, “Let’s do it.” And so we made it happen within 60 days, and then we worked on a handshake for about a year or two. We didn’t have nothing. So a lot of trust there.

Anthony Denman:
That’s insane. I had a bit to do with John growing up. And when I was cutting my teeth in real estate, I used to sit in a lot of meetings with him when he was kind of running the projects in the eastern suburbs, sort of followed him. And the thing that I really liked about John’s … well, McGrath’s approach to branding or brand identity work, and look, a brand is a lot more than just a logo, right? Brand is the way you behave. It’s intrinsic to your behaviour. And I think what was really obvious to me back in the day when you had Bart Doff, who was kind of like the king of Double Bay, representing Laing+Simmons. You had Bill Malouf, king of Double Bay, LJ Hooker, Craig Pontey, Michael Finger, Ray White. It always sort of seemed to me pretty obvious there was an opportunity, there was a niche where you could create a brand identity, and when I say brand identity, I mean inside and out, that was a lot more design-savvy.

Anthony Denman:
Because those brands to me, they always seemed to be in sync with the broader marketplace, and there was nothing there that really, to me sort of spoke of quality, and sophistication, and elegance, and beauty, all those things that you look for when you’re looking to live in a beautiful home. There was a time there we were running like we just basically produce the Wentworth Courier, provided a third of their advertising content at one stage. So pages and pages of eastern suburbs, real estate, essentially. And everyone used to say to me, they’d pull me aside and say, “What do we have to do to look as good as McGrath do?” And it’s like-

Mat Steinwede:
Well, I mean, still now, people copy like nothing else, like the round sold signs, everything. John goes this way, the industry goes this way.

Anthony Denman:
Yeah. And it was as simple as, I think back in the day, there was so much stuff in these suburbs that had blue water in it, and just having a dark blue at the time brand identity when all you had was print media, it really worked. And you had poor old Ray White and Laing+Simmons with their green and yellow just not being able to compete some of the really obvious things that he made happen. It was great. And I think even then, he had his own in-house marketing department, so had full control over everything that was going on.

Mat Steinwede:
Yeah.

Anthony Denman:
So you guys were the first McGrath franchise. Wow.

Mat Steinwede:
We were, yeah. So we got a great relationship with John, and still now, I mean, he just texted me yesterday about … He’s so hands on, so good. He just was like, “Mattie, whatever you’re saying, compliment about something, or work, or whatever.” But he’s awesome. Love him.

Anthony Denman:
Yeah, great. What’s more important to you, the Matt Steinwede brand or the McGrath brand?

Mat Steinwede:
Both. I’d say that I think the Matt Steinwede one first in terms of the technical side of things, but I love being a part of the McGrath brand.

Anthony Denman:
I asked this question of Jason Boon, and I think you know Jason Boon.

Mat Steinwede:
I know him very well. We used to go out with the same girl.

Anthony Denman:
Oh, did you? Because you guys used to party together too, I think.

Mat Steinwede:
We did. Yeah. So his long term girlfriend, Lisa, she became my long term girlfriend after him.

Anthony Denman:
Yeah. Okay, so you cut his grass?

Mat Steinwede:
No. We just happened to end up with the same girl.

Anthony Denman:
Funny, actually. You guys are really similar, got similar stories. I grew up with Jas around Tamarama & Bronte surfing, a very good surfer, goofy foot, actually.

Mat Steinwede:
He is. Yeah.

Anthony Denman:
You’re a goofy footer too, right?

Mat Steinwede:
I am, yeah.

Anthony Denman:
So two good-looking, blonde, goofy foot surfers.

Mat Steinwede:
Yeah.

Anthony Denman:
Grew up in the eastern suburbs. Got misled. Both of you got misled by the bright lights of Darlo. And then both forged really successful real estate careers, and interestingly enough in similar markets now. This is what I mean by similar markets. When Jas started out, he was in the cross, basically-

Mat Steinwede:
Yeah. He still is.

Anthony Denman:
And yeah, totally, right, and selling $150,000 studio apartments, believe it or not. And I asked him this question, was there a time where he kind of realized that Kings Cross was becoming gentrified, and that the prices were skyrocketing, and that he was actually on the cusp of an incredibly great opportunity to make some serious money? And he said, he actually pinpointed there was one listing. I think he said it was Mcleay Street where sort of 10 years earlier, he had the listing, and there was a dribble of inquiry walking through the place with people that were kind of looking semi-disinterested, and not having a lot to spend. 10 years later, he listed the same apartment, and it was full of yuppies, and the place was heaving, and the prices were going through the roof.

Anthony Denman:
Was there a moment on the Central Coast, because we’ve seen some significant price gains in this location in recent times, but was there a moment on the Central Coast that you kind of realized, because starting out in Killarney Vale that wow, actually, yeah, this real estate market is about to become quite significant, and I’m in a great opportunity to capitalize on that?

Mat Steinwede:
I think we’re in it now.

Anthony Denman:
Really?

Mat Steinwede:
I do.

Anthony Denman:
Just now?

Mat Steinwede:
I think we’re in it right now.

Anthony Denman:
Just now?

Mat Steinwede:
This is the change of the Potts Point and all that sort of areas. Now, things are just firing hard. They have done before, like 2003, 2004. But now, it’s different. I think we’re right on that cuff.

Anthony Denman:
Well, there you go, there’s another 20 years of hard work and success for you ahead. You’ve been quoted saying that you like to make the hard calls first up in the day, because you like to get those out of the way. Otherwise, they drain your energy. Can you give me an example of a hard call?

Mat Steinwede:
Yeah, I can. So I kicked my son out of the house on Sunday, and-

Anthony Denman:
Which one?

Mat Steinwede:
Logan.

Anthony Denman:
Oh, no.

Mat Steinwede:
And so he got into real trouble again on Saturday night, and this got nothing to do with work. But it’s a good example of a hard talk. And he’s had a bit of trouble over the last six months especially, maybe a bit more than that. So yesterday, you know when something’s just on your mind, and you’re just … it’s actually distracting you. Not enough so anyone would notice, but your energy tends to be just always conscious of it? And I could have quite easily just not called him. He’s gone to his mum’s. If he wants to live like that, I could’ve just been like, “Yeah, go deal with it.” But I was talking to Amy yesterday, who you know very well, or you know Amy, and then his coach, and I said, I was chatting about it and I was like, “You know Amy, I think I just need to let life teach him.” And she goes, “I reckon you need to call him.” And I was like, “Yeah, you’re right.”

Mat Steinwede:
So I called him, and literally, that call, I reckon it saved me six months of pain with him. And we had a really good conversation where I could have quite easily not. It’s easy for me not to, let him go his mum’s. And I think all calls are like that. I could have put it off. It was very uncomfortable. Because he did the wrong thing massively on Saturday night at someone else’s place. But it’s like having dealt with it, I feel hits better now. And we’ve all been there. It’s nothing new, what I’m saying, but same goes in business. I think sometimes the opportunity is in those challenging moments, even though they might be scary or fearful, or even follow up, follow up is the same. We quite often put follow up off because of what people will say, but it’s that eight-second John McGrath, eight seconds of courage to make the call to either flash it out gone, or something’s going to come back from it. And you’ll be amazed at how many times just by making the effort that 90% of the time, it’s actually good. It’s a good response. The 10%, oh, well, move on.

Anthony Denman:
I think there’s a lot of Esther Hicks in that too, right?

Mat Steinwede:
It is.

Anthony Denman:
Mastering your energy, I guess you’d call it.

Mat Steinwede:
Yeah.

Anthony Denman:
I think that’s a really good piece of advice, mate. Thank you. I hope everything works out with Logan.

Mat Steinwede:
me too

Anthony Denman:
For those of you don’t know, Logan’s very talented, much more talented than Matt.

Mat Steinwede:
Much more.

Anthony Denman:
Way more talented than Matt. Incredibly good surfer, and we’d both love to see him realize the potential in that.

Mat Steinwede:
We would.

Anthony Denman:
Okay, so this is an interesting one. Back in the day, and I asked Bill Malouf this question, he answered it exactly as I suspected he would, conditioning. Right? So tell a buyer their property’s worth seven when you know it’s worth five at the beginning. And then over that period of time, you give them a whole lot of reasons why it’s no longer worth seven. In fact, it’s probably worth three. So when you get to the point of sale and you sell it for five, they think you’re a legend. Meanwhile, you’re telling the vendor that they’re going to have to pay seven-

Mat Steinwede:
The buyer, yeah.

Anthony Denman:
The buyer, sorry. Sorry, mate. Yes, the buyer, they’re going to have to pay seven. They grab it for five. They think you’re a legend because you’ve got the ideal, the perfect utopian negotiation where the vendor loves you, because they’ve forgotten about what you said originally, but you got them a great price in the end, and the buyer loves you because you got them to bargain – two questions. I guess the first question is, have you ever participated in that style of negotiation? And the second part of the question is, is that the ideal outcome of a negotiation?

Mat Steinwede:
I think I’ve time and a season like I used to, probably because I was taught that way in the old school tell an owner this, and work on them, and condition them, and give them all the reports that say that their property is not worth this much. And by the time they get to the end, they’re exhausted and just want to sell it. I have to say yes, years ago. But I soon learned, because I think personalities come into play here as well. My personality is very direct, and it’s very transparent. I’m not a very good liar. If I try and lie, you can actually see me lying. So I don’t lie when I know I am. I might have lied in the past, and it’s never worked out for me.

Mat Steinwede:
But I tell you what I try and explain to people now is now, I don’t do that now, and I haven’t done that for a long time, I talk people through behavior, which is much better. So when someone lives in a house, there’s three levels of pricing anyway. There’s logical, which is like if you got a valuation, Anth, for your place, and I know your place, it’s very beautiful, so if you got a valuation for your place, the value would have to come up with a legal binding valuation, logical, based on comparables. There’s not many comparables for your house, but you’d have to draw on out of the area for similar types of logic. And there’s emotional. The emotional is five to 20% more than what people thought they would spend over the logical.

Mat Steinwede:
And now in this market, there’s competitive above that again. So what I say to people is, quite often when an owner wants to sell their house, they come from the emotional at the beginning. So that’s going to be this range here, whatever that may be. But buyers don’t start there. Buyers start logical. And I show them reports, sample of reports, and it says, let’s say we had 300 inquires, and they’re real time reports, and they’re like, “Price indication, how much, how much. The price indicates la, la, la.” There might be 300 inquiries on price. And I say why that is, is they research. They got all the data. They want to know, is the price guide reflective of what they initially think logically? And if it is, they’ll come and inspect.

Mat Steinwede:
Then when they inspect, they’ll walk around the house, and then if it fits them, they’ll start going, “Oh, that’s the kid’s bedroom. This is this, this, this. So they actually move to the emotional. So no one’s wrong with price, it’s how do you manage it? And that’s what I mean. And then if you get enough people in the emotional range, that’s when that turns into the competitive, and no one can judge what that’s going to be. Some are a million over, some 500, some 200. But if you all start, and that’s what I like with transparency, I say to an owner, “You’re here, this is where I’m coming from. That’s where buyers are going to come from.” My part in it is, let’s create a strategy around, so we encompass all of it and give you the best opportunity. So if you do that, you’re not sitting in front of an owner saying, “Oh, sorry, I said one, three. We’re actually one, one.” That’s just fraud.

Anthony Denman:
Did you figure that out for yourself, or?

Mat Steinwede:
Because I felt uncomfortable with the way I was taught. I was taught, “Tell an owner this.” And when you’re knowing it’s different and it’s like, that’s why I separate it because a valuer is always no emotion. And if they paid $1,000, why do people listen to a valuer? Because the valuer basically just uses the comparables that I have anyway, so they’re not wrong, and it’s just a position in the market. And then when I was taught that, I used to see so many unhappy owners. I used to feel sick, because every week, you’ve got to sit in front of them and hammer them down on price, condition them. That’s why it’s called conditioning. Condition them into a lower price. When people aren’t dumb, you just be real with people and say, “This is where the levels of pricing are. Let’s just see, let’s position it correctly and work on it together.” When you are a together approach, it’s much better, much. There’s none of this fraud. It’s fraud.

Anthony Denman:
Really well-said, Matt. One thing I’ve always done is bought and sold a lot of property. My experience is you don’t always sell well, so you have to buy well. My idea of the ideal negotiated outcome is when the buyer feels like they’ve paid a little bit too much and the seller feels like they could have got a little bit more. That’s probably the sweet spot, right?

Mat Steinwede:
Yeah.

Anthony Denman:
The real sweet spot. Do you ever turn your phone off?

Mat Steinwede:
No.

Anthony Denman:
Never?

Mat Steinwede:
Never.

Anthony Denman:
Not even in the night? Does anyone ever ring you after like … Because I know you go to bed early.

Mat Steinwede:
yep

Anthony Denman:
And what do you do?

Mat Steinwede:
It’s always on silent. My phone’s on silent all day, every day.

Anthony Denman:
It’s on silent?

Mat Steinwede:
Always

Anthony Denman:
So you have to see it?

Mat Steinwede:
Yeah, but I’m always checking it. It rings every one minute.

Anthony Denman:
Does it, really? My God.

Mat Steinwede:
My phone rings nonstop all day like this.

Anthony Denman:
How do you manage that?

Mat Steinwede:
So what happens is my phone rings through to Jordan if I don’t answer, so he gets the messages and calls and things like that. So he filters them and

Anthony Denman:
Oh, okay.

Mat Steinwede:
I try and answer the ones I can, but yeah.

Anthony Denman:
You answered mine.

Mat Steinwede:
I did because I can see your name pop up, so …

Anthony Denman:
Got to say, and after this podcast, I actually would suggest that everyone who’s got an interest in what Matt’s doing, go google him because man, you’ve got so much online content.

Mat Steinwede:
I’ve got a bit

Anthony Denman:
How hard is it to continually produce that much good quality online content?

Mat Steinwede:
It comes from my heart, so it’s not hard. It’s genuinely what I like to share. I might do a video or two a day. At the moment, looks like Jackson’s going to come back and join me. That’s my son. So Broccoli’s just left. He’s going into radio. So yeah. No, I don’t mind. I have a full time video person, usually. I haven’t in the last few days, but usually. So they’re around, and I like it. It’s like doing video for me it’s just, boom, it’s like no take.

Anthony Denman:
One thing I remember is having a chat to you just after you won the yearly annual award for being the number one salesperson at McGrath, and I said to you, I said, “Matt, that’s really good, mate. Congratulations. Well done.” You said, “Mate, yesterday is news, I’m moving on.”

Mat Steinwede:
Yeah.

Anthony Denman:
Do you celebrate your successes?

Mat Steinwede:
No. I don’t know why, I just don’t. It’s just more like a mark on the way to where I want to go, really.

Anthony Denman:
Maybe if you did celebrate your successes a bit more, you might increase your energy vibration scale.

Mat Steinwede:
Maybe. I’m just pretty satisfied, anyway. They don’t really mean much to me. It’s just like, cool. Right? So I don’t know. Yeah, I’m just pretty happy anyway.

Anthony Denman:
Yeah, you’re already vibrating at that higher level.

Mat Steinwede:
Yeah. Doesn’t make me anyone different.

Anthony Denman:
What about if you kind of, I don’t know list … like when you listed Mr. Fish and Chips house at Wamberal. Did you celebrate that success?

Mat Steinwede:
No. No. I sort of expect to. I don’t know. I don’t know how to explain it. It’s like one time I really expected to list this house. It was a really good one. And I didn’t, and I couldn’t believe it. I was like, “I really expect to list.” I didn’t go pitch for it. I just expected to list this house and I just sold it the other day. And I sold it for a record. I just feel like vibrationally, it’s just coming to me anyway. So it’s like, but that’s why I don’t really get that excited because I don’t have a lot of anticipation around getting it. It’s more like, “Okay, cool, I’m done.” And then I move on to the next thing. I don’t know. I don’t know how to explain it.

Anthony Denman:
Yeah. No, it’s a really interesting idea. Mate, I used to. I think that was part of my problem. I’d celebrate the opening of an envelope there for a while. Funnily enough, when I was researching your podcast, don’t ask me how, but I came across some Jim Carrey stuff.

Mat Steinwede:
Oh, yeah.

Anthony Denman:
Interestingly enough. Yeah. Because he’s kind of on that universe, ask the universe for it and you’ll get it wavelength as well. In fact, where the light switch flipped for him was when he actually studied a statement from Buddha, interestingly enough. And Buddha had said all spirituality is about relieving suffering. And the core of all spirituality is about relieving suffering, and that became his purpose. That was his reason for being, to get out of bed was to make people laugh. And by making people laugh, it relieves their suffering. It gave him like an inner purpose that can’t be written down, that becomes part of you, and that just drives you each and every day, you’re very best at doing that, right, which is why he’s so successful. What’s your purpose?

Mat Steinwede:
Find what I’m capable of. That’s really what it is for me. And my capable isn’t what might appeal to some. If I’m what I’m capable of, and I’ve had a very challenging life, I’ve had a very challenging life in many ways. And I’ve spoke about five minutes on here about all sorts of stuff, but my sister killed herself. She was trafficked. I don’t know what you call by men, and then ended up hanging in a shed. We both went on the same sort of path. She didn’t obviously make it, but it’s like … And I just think to myself, “What am I capable of?” And I look back, and I’m like, even my last divorce is difficult. To give up 60 something percent of everything you’ve built in 20 years. It’s not easy, maintain the stability for your kids, and move on, and still perform every day, and I’m not winging about that at all. I’m just sort of saying, what are we capable of?

Mat Steinwede:
And that really is my purpose, how can I perform when I get to 50 and 55? I want to be one of those guys that people look out and go, “Whoa, how does he do that at that age? How does he have that body at that age? How does he perform it year after year, after year, after year building something that enthuses him?” It really interests me. I’d like to work out relationships. I have a deficiency in that area, but I really like a happy, fulfilling relationship. It’s the next quest for me. So it’s sort of my purpose is working out my capability, not having excuses around things.

Anthony Denman:
Great. Matt, I got two words for you to help you with the quest on the relationship thing. Yes Dear. It’s the only fucking way, man. You have to dissolve your ego, you have to have no ego in a relationship.

Mat Steinwede:
I know. I get it. I really understand the logic of everything, and I really understand … I’ve studied things. I look at things, better things, but my personality is I don’t settle very easily. So it’s like, I don’t know. I’m cut from a different cloth, maybe from you and other people at different ways. We’re all different, but that settling thing is very tricky for me. So how do you stay enthused within that model if you can? I don’t know.

Anthony Denman:
I use that. I’ve been using your energy guidance scale lately.

Mat Steinwede:
That’s good

Anthony Denman:
That’s fine. For getting that contrast, I mean, I’ve always used the ego thing, the dissolving of the ego, and I let the abuse fly. It just goes over my head. It doesn’t even register because we could be having … She could be just unloading on me, and I know if I just let it fly by, five minutes later, we’ll be having a glass of wine and laughing.

Mat Steinwede:
Yeah, I get that. How do you stay attracted to someone over the years?

Anthony Denman:
Great question.

Mat Steinwede:
How do you stay attracted to someone? I’d say lots of relationships, and I reckon half of them are just walking dead that I see. This is just me observing. How do you stay … And then you might see another couple that just genuinely that are attracted to each other for 20 years. And it’s an energy thing, I’m sure. But that part, we’re driven sexually, we’re driven emotionally, we’re driven in our thought as well. How do you stay at … So how do you keep that alive? That’s interesting to me.

Anthony Denman:
Yeah. That’s a tough one.

Mat Steinwede:
I don’t want to be sitting in my workshop making wooden bowls when I’m 60 years old just to get away from my wife. I don’t want to do that. I want to be jumping off a cliff, BASE jumping with my wife and we’re pumped about life, that sort of thing.

Anthony Denman:
Yeah. I have no idea. I think I’m so far been lucky in that I’m still really attracted to my partner. Whether that’s going to last or not, time will tell. But yeah.

Mat Steinwede:
My partners as much as her. How do I stay attractive for her? I don’t know. Anyway, we could about that.

Anthony Denman:
Well, I think it’s fair to say that I have never been attractive to my partner. So we got a good starting point there. Mate, playing well about my weight. So it’s hard for you because you’re such a handsome man to-

Mat Steinwede:
oh yeah

Anthony Denman:
… to be in that position. Have you thought about what’s … And we’re finishing up now, so mate, thanks for your time. What’s next for you? Have you thought about what might be next for you after real estate?

Mat Steinwede:
No. No.

Anthony Denman:
You talked about the corporate athlete.

Mat Steinwede:
I think I just like to speak. I like doing what I’m doing, build the company, sell the company one day, speak. I’ll have another baby pretty soon, I’m sure. I don’t know. Wealth interests me at the moment, so wealth interests me. Buy some XRP, if you haven’t already. Just-

Anthony Denman:
What’s XRP?

Mat Steinwede:
XRP, look into it. My mate rang me about it a year ago. The way currency is going to be distributed or managed between banks, it’s going to be look into XRP Ripple. But I don’t know, wealth interests me at the moment. I like doing what I’m doing. I’m pretty happy. Yeah. Next to me, I think I’d like to speak around. I’ve spoken for years, but maybe just a bit more. I don’t know. I’m happy.

Anthony Denman:
That’s great, man. You look happy. You look happy. For anybody who wants to get in touch with you, what’s the best way for them to do that?

Mat Steinwede:
Tinder. You call me.

Anthony Denman:
That’s funny, man. What’s your phone number?

Mat Steinwede:
O414 852 200.

Anthony Denman:
All right. Thanks, Matt.

About Us

The Property Marketing Podcast is an original podcast hosted by Anthony Denman, co-founder of Our Agency. In each episode Anthony talks to Australia’s most experienced property professionals, unearthing their tips and providing insights on how to create the most successful place, property, corporate & personal brands possible.

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