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It was also in the time before social media so we were in the late '90s, there wasn't Instagram or Facebook wasn't prolific. I suppose it was like one big party in the street that day, and in walks this crazy mascot

Episode 13

On pioneering “the block” television series, creating your own real estate brand and old school door knocking.

Pauline Goodyer - Founder & Principal - Goodyer Real Estate

Pauline began her selling career at McGrath where for over a decade she was one of the top performing agents; which is why she was chosen as the selling agent for the original series of the hugely popular television show ‘The Block”, representing the popular contestants ‘Gav and Waz’. It was a pretty amazing experience that taught her even more than she already knew about the power of presentation, publicity and marketing. In 2004, she co-founded her own brand Goodyer Donnelly – a partnership she co-owned and ran as a successful full service real estate agency for 9 years.

In 2013 she decided a more personal approach was the way forward- so she founded Goodyer Real Estate, treating every property and client with tailored, targeted attention. Pauline has broken numerous suburb price records in one of the most competitive real estate markets in Australia and remains today one the country’s most successful real estate performers.

In this episode Pauline shares her experience of selling one of the first ever apartments on the ‘The Block”, how she started her own real estate brand and her one & only foray into old school door knocking…Enjoy.

Transcript

Anthony Denman:
Pauline, welcome to the Property Marketing Podcast.

Pauline Goodyer:
Well, thanks, Anthony. It’s great to be here connecting with you.

Anthony Denman:
I’d like to start this conversation off in a bit of an unusual place. It was the time when you had a six foot tall puppet, mascot, who kind of looked like he was on LSD, bidding at one of your auctions.

Pauline Goodyer:
I think what you’re talking about is the sale of the first ever series of The Block, which was Bondi Beach. Roscoe Street if I’m correct. Block of four apartments, and I was engaged by the designer boys not who they were not known as at that time, but Gavin & Waz, Gavin and Warren, to sell their property. During that process, no one knew what was going to happen. Each week we’d had queues a kilometer long, going down the street around the corner, of people coming to look at the properties.

Pauline Goodyer:
The power of the television show was enormous. What we didn’t know was whether we had a buyer, because we couldn’t decipher who was a buyer, who wasn’t. There were no contract changes from the lawyers. We were just flying blind and we didn’t know what would happen. Then, the night before the auction we received a call from parties representing Crazy John’s, which I didn’t even know at the time who Crazy John’s was, but apparently it’s a very popular mobile phone provider in Victoria.

Pauline Goodyer:
They advised they were going to attend the auction and they were going to bid and wanted to buy only one apartment, and that apartment they’d chosen was going to be Gavin and Wazza’s. That made me feel good the next day. I felt, “Okay, great. I’ve got a buyer. Do I have other bidders? Do I have other buyers who are going to be interested?” It was also in the time before social media so we were in the late ’90s, there wasn’t Instagram or Facebook wasn’t prolific. I suppose it was like one big party in the street that day, and in walks in this crazy mascot.

Pauline Goodyer:
People are like, “What’s going on here? What’s going on here?” It created such a buzz. it was in the Sunday papers, it was all over the media. I think it made the television news. No one was so concerned with, “Okay, who won The Block that weekend?” It was all about Crazy John’s. We actually, we didn’t get the highest price, and I always thought the property that was auctioned last would get the highest price, and it did. But it was such a wonderful, fun experience. Great to be involved in that inaugural series, and now it’s gone on to do so well here and in Victoria, and still continues to make the press.

Anthony Denman:
Do you still watch it?

Pauline Goodyer:
I actually don’t watch much TV. I’m so busy but I always do take an interest in what goes on, so I’m probably more inclined to see it on my social than sitting there and watching the whole hour of the series. But it is always fascinating for me, and I’ve met many of the contestants since that time who’ve gone on to make a business or hobby out of renovating and selling their properties.

Anthony Denman:
Gavin and Wazz, they went on to create quite a successful little business, didn’t they? Called The Designer Boys.

Pauline Goodyer:
They did. I think I planted the seed with them early on that they should get out there and do property presentations and do styling. They did do that. They started that business doing property styling. They had their trucks and off they went, and it was really successful for quite a while. I think they then sold that business and last time I saw them they were into doing a lot of artwork, prints and art, and they have quite a following there, and sell to a select clientele. They’ve always been involved. They’ve gone on and renovated other properties, so yeah, for both of them coming from the airline industry, it really, it forged their next career.

Anthony Denman:
One of the things about listing any property is that you get the opportunity to list more properties. I mean, with kilometer long queues, were there any genuine opportunities there for you?

Pauline Goodyer:
Oh, look, gosh, I don’t know if I can remember back to whether there was anyone in those queues. I think everyone in those queues was coming from all over the place. They probably were not necessarily the buyers but they were so interested in real estate and interested in that step of having a product that was completely raw, to seeing each week how it had been developed and what the character of these four couples, what they were creating. It was all a little bit different, but it was such a human interest story, as well. Again, it was before everyone got access to social media and has instant access to everyone’s lives. I think it was getting into their lives and that fascination that Australians have with real estate. It really shone through.

Anthony Denman:
We’ll get into the social media stuff a little bit later on and what you’re doing there, but we might then go back even before The Block, and so you were one of the old school, had to go to TAFE and study a diploma.

Pauline Goodyer:
Yeah, that’s right. When I was getting into real estate and my first job was with Century 21. It was when Century 21 were making the big inroads into Australia. There was a small group of us that ended up working for a couple of different agencies, and then all ended up working for McGrath Estate Agents, when John was … When that business was evolving and growing. In those days, the best thing was you were working and you were studying in the evenings.

Pauline Goodyer:
That to me was … That allowed you to develop relationships with others in the industry who were starting their careers, and doing the same as you were, and I’m still in touch with many of those agents today, who’ve all gone on to have successful careers, too. But it was also that thing of being able to bounce ideas off each other, whereas today there’s this fast track to get your license and get going. In those days it was a slower approach.

Pauline Goodyer:
It was over like three years, you were going off to TAFE in the evenings and you were working during the day. You were learning on the job, but you were picking up the ideas through your teachers in the evening and through your other classmates who were also working in whether it was residential or whatever, looking to forge careers in commercial or even move into valuation. A lot of those guys have all been quite successful and like to keep in touch with them, and sometimes you’ll pick up the phone, you haven’t spoken to someone for two years, yet you’ve got this easy rapport with them and they’re very open to providing information as I am to them.

Anthony Denman:
I want to talk about John McGrath. We both know John very well and incredible success story and just revolutionized I think, is fair to say, the brand landscape of the real estate category on a franchise level. You were there in those very early days, you were one of the select few, I guess, that got that brand going. I’ve got two questions. Probably the first question is John brought you in because he wanted to grow the business on the coast, and he brought you in because of that. My first question is why were you so successful on the coast? And then the second question is what was it do you think that John, beyond having your patch on the coast, what was it that you think John saw in you to want you to bring you onboard as one of the first agents?

Pauline Goodyer:
There were already a couple of friends that were working there, working in Paddington, and working around the Parkside areas. The idea was to have someone in that was doing business around those coastal areas, and at the time I was based in Bondi Beach, and I was doing a lot of sales there, and more so actually moving across into Tamarama and moving across into Bronte, as well.

Pauline Goodyer:
I’m still a hard worker, but in those days we all used to put our heads down and we worked really hard. I mean, it was the fact that we were all young and we were all ambitious. I think that’s probably what John saw. That was our team. We’d work hard, we share information. That went very, very well for quite a number of years. It was a fantastic opportunity and allowed me to grow my wealth in the real estate sector, too, at that time. I think the main thing is when you’re working hard and you’re earning money, you’ve got to remember, and I say this to young agents, you’ve always got to remember to put something away.

Pauline Goodyer:
Don’t spend it all, don’t just spend it all on flash holidays and flash cars. Always put some savings away, whether that’s straight into property or elsewhere, because it’ll grow and you’ll build your portfolio.

Anthony Denman:
I thought it was fairly standard procedure for an agent to have a flash car.

Pauline Goodyer:
There’s something about that, isn’t it? The flash car and the boys in their tight suits.

Anthony Denman:
Yeah, so why the coast? How did you get started on the coast?

Pauline Goodyer:
I think it was the fact that in the early ’90s, when I took a job and was working at Bondi Beach and interest rates were super high and I was thrown into that market of trying to sell in that neighborhood, it was very, very difficult because we had interest rates of 17%. There were no mortgage originators, so buyers found it very, very difficult to get funding. I was trying to make a go of that area. Bondi was nothing like it is today. There were only one or two cafes, and I just developed some relationships with some clients there, and it just started to work.

Pauline Goodyer:
I was dealing with a lot of Jewish landlords that had held property for a long period of time, and if that’s not a training ground, I don’t know what is. Because it absolutely trains you and helps hone your negotiation skills. And then I started dealing with a few people who were in the film industry that had properties in that area. There were then all the Qantas boys who on their free days were buying, renovating, and selling property. They were all return clients.

Pauline Goodyer:
And it was just a market that I enjoyed and I enjoyed working there, and it just then grew as my clients grew from apartments into houses, and then from houses into waterfront properties. It’s just a market that’s evolved over the decades.

Anthony Denman:
I mean, I know having grown up in Bondi that Bondi was nothing like it is today. It was very much a working class suburb. You were either a Maori or a heroin addict really, if you lived in Bondi.

Pauline Goodyer:
Just remember, people said that about Sir Thomas Mitchell Road, it was always full of the Maoris.

Anthony Denman:
Totally. They ruled the place. For a long time. For a long time. Was there a time when you were working that patch, was there a moment that you realized, “Hang on, I’m onto something here. This is a really burgeoning area and I’ve got a great opportunity?”

Pauline Goodyer:
Yeah, look, I think it’s wonderful to be working in an area that’s really up and coming. You’ve got these people with vision and this high growth starting to happen. It’s a wonderful feeling. I remember I had an American client who came in from New York after 9/11 and traded a few properties in Tamarama with me. He likened the area at that time to New York back in the 1970s.

Anthony Denman:
Wow.

Pauline Goodyer:
It didn’t mean much at the time, but it means a lot now when you see what’s happened with the growth.

Anthony Denman:
Yeah, it’s amazing, isn’t it? Every little hole in the wall has just kind of filled itself, created itself, created a destination that you can go to and just experience something out of the ordinary, which is you’re driven by that kind of creative culture, and I think Bondi being beside the ocean plays a part, and being so close to the city, too, of course. With all that opportunity that comes with being that close to the city.

Pauline Goodyer:
That’s right.

Anthony Denman:
Yeah, okay. John saw ambition in you. Give me something more than just blind ambition, Pauline, that he saw in you.

Pauline Goodyer:
I suppose you need an element of communication skills in this business. We meet all sorts of people and you’ve got to be able to connect with people on their level. That’s a skillset that I think is a little bit innate. But it’s something that you’ve got to be able to pick up on, and you’ve got to be able to have a good ear for listening. If you’re not a listener, it’s very hard to succeed in this business.

Anthony Denman:
Because John’s approach was very unique, and I mentioned that before, in that up until he came along … I mean, there were a few independent agencies around, but none of them were really that marketing savvy. Really, if you weren’t a part of the LJ Hooker Group or the Ray White Group, Richardson & Wrench, it was as though you were at a bit of a disadvantage. I think what John saw was that he could create a brand that was a bit more design savvy and a little bit more boutique orientated.

Pauline Goodyer:
Correct. And that was growing with the market at that time. So, you had an energy from people of my age group coming through and picking up great jobs, and earning good money. You had your young investment bankers set, your lawyers, your medicos, and they wanted to have nice property, or they wanted to renovate and own nice properties. That was a market that I was able to grow with and a lot of those people are still clients of mine today, and reside in multimillion dollar properties.

Pauline Goodyer:
And I’ve also helped them build investment portfolios along the way. So, I think it was a generational thing. It was like this change of generation and attitude that was going on out there.

Anthony Denman:
And then you took it one step further, right? It wasn’t enough for you. You decided that you were going to go and create your own brand, which is a really, really gutsy move.

Pauline Goodyer:
You’re always evolving and I suppose there were changes going on in that business and I was feeling a bit stale, feeling like I needed a new challenge. I also had a young child at that stage, and I wanted to be able to still have the work/life balance. And then that was the next step, I think it was 2003. Setting up a business with someone else and then growing that business for the next 19 years.

Anthony Denman:
Was it a scary transition?

Pauline Goodyer:
No. I think if you think too much about transitions, you’ll tend not to make them. It was really front of mind and, “Let’s do this and let’s make it a success.” It was a decision that was forged very quickly and executed very quickly, and I just think we never looked back. I think if you postulate too long on something, it gives you … It feeds doubt into your mind, so it was just a matter of getting on with it, and it worked. It was terrific.

Anthony Denman:
As the old Nike slogan goes, hey? Just do it.

Pauline Goodyer:
Just do it, yeah. Exactly.

Anthony Denman:
And then you just did it again.

Pauline Goodyer:
I just did it again, yeah. That’s right. Yeah, now I’m where I am. Still enjoying the business immensely.

Anthony Denman:
A bit more boutique, right?

Pauline Goodyer:
Yeah, a bit more boutique.

Anthony Denman:
Bit more focused.

Pauline Goodyer:
I think what I’ve noticed was real estate is becoming more about the agent and less about the client. You’ve always got to remember that the business is about the client. We are a service industry and I felt that I wanted to take it back to that, to being a service industry offering great bespoke service, across a value of property, but mainly mid to higher end property at the moment. I’m no longer dealing with your first time buyer market. It’s not really my market now.

Pauline Goodyer:
It’s taken it to that mid to upper tier property, which is really where my clients are sitting, as well. Not to say that I won’t look after them if they’re selling an investment. In fact, I had a client from 20 years ago contact me earlier this year and she said, “Oh, Pauline.” She said, “You put me on the straight path to invest in a great location.” It was at Tamarama.

Pauline Goodyer:
She said, “I’m now almost ready to retire and I’d like to sell the property. Will you do it for me?” I said, “Of course I will.” It’s great having relationships like that and having someone that trusts you enough to come back to you and just work with you again. That was really good.

Anthony Denman:
Is it harder to sell a multimillion property than it is an entry level one?

Pauline Goodyer:
You’ve got to be able to deal with, again, it comes down to people and personalities. You’ve got to be able to move in those circles, where those sellers are, and you’ve got to feel comfortable working with that market. That might not be for someone junior who’s starting out in the industry. I think you’ll find that those that are more seasoned in the industry tend to look after that clientele better and adapt. I think those selling those properties tend to feel more comfortable dealing with someone that’s a little bit more mature, has life experience, has property experience, and understands the market well. Understands cycles in the market.

Anthony Denman:
Look, do you have a preferred method of sale?

Pauline Goodyer:
No, I don’t. Because I think you’ve got to, in this day and age, and with what we’ve gone through these last few months with COVID, you’ve actually got to look at the property and you’ve got to think about the market for the property. I tend to profile who the buyer might be for that property, and I think about what’s the right method to sell that. Is this property going to be an auction? Is this property better placed as a private treaty? And then we can work from there.

Pauline Goodyer:
Is it something that is right to go-to-market now, or should we be marketing this at a later time? They’re all things that I’ll look at, and advise the clients accordingly.

Anthony Denman:
Expressions of interest at all? Do you do much of those?

Pauline Goodyer:
Yeah. Well, sometimes. I think expressions of interest, though, at the moment, people tend to take it as, “Oh, they’re not serious about selling.” I think you’re either on the market to negotiate with a price guide, or you’re going to auction.

Anthony Denman:
You talked earlier about that idea of that kind of design savviness, of creating a brand that reflects that change of attitude, and this idea of living the brand, which is dressing a particular way and behave in a particular way, and speaking in a particular way. It all reflects how you see your brand being portrayed. How do you transfer that authenticity to the people that work with you, or for you, or under your brand?

Pauline Goodyer:
Yeah, I think the people that choose to work with me and I choose them, are all for that reason. There’s a certain type of person that I probably wouldn’t be employing, and then there are those that I feel I’d be very comfortable to have work with me.

Anthony Denman:
It’s a recruitment process, right?

Pauline Goodyer:
Yeah.

Anthony Denman:
Identifying those traits in people-

Pauline Goodyer:
And identifying and being able to see. I think when you’ve worked in this industry for a while, you can identify new talent and see who’s going to be really good in the future, and then nurturing that. I’m not one to be really a training ground. I prefer seasoned agents with life skills working for me. But you’ve always got to have someone junior in your office that you can bring through the ranks. It’s, identifying that talent.

Anthony Denman:
Have you had any younger people that have worked for you that have gone on to become successful agents in their own right?

Pauline Goodyer:
I think you know the answer to that. I think there’s been plenty that have gone on to be successful in their own right.

Anthony Denman:
And they’re now your competitors, right?

Pauline Goodyer:
Then become competitors, yep.

Anthony Denman:
Don’t you just love that? I just want to talk about styling a bit and giving advice on presenting a property. You’ve had a lot of experience in that, doing that. For your own property, and for your clients.

Pauline Goodyer:
I’ve always been a strong believer in presentation, whether it’s your personal presentation, and also presenting the property in a particular way. If someone needs assistance in presenting the property, then I can absolutely direct them to the right stylist, the right traits to get a property ready and on the market. I’ve also developed my own properties. I’ve been through the whole DA process and building process, and renovated quite a number of places. I think that skill, that life skill of doing that does make it an easier transition when you’re advising people on how they should be presenting their property for sale.

Pauline Goodyer:
That can be as simple as just working with them on a declutter, or it can be renovating bathrooms and kitchens before they go-to-market. The appetite for buyers these days, for renovation, I’ve seen waned. It’s not like it used to be where the renovator specials where what everyone wanted to buy. Everyone wanted to buy them and add value, and you remember that time in the market, too. When that was what everyone was gravitating toward.

Pauline Goodyer:
Now, whether it’s because buyers are time poor, I think it’s a combination of being time poor and also the cost of renovation has just risen so dramatically that it’s not affordable for people to do serious renovations like they used to, and trade property like they used to. There’s more of a trend moving toward the done product now, purchasing property where they don’t have to do anything to, or do minor things. A lot of the time now people think renovation is a coat of paint, which it’s clearly not. But the appetite for renovating your own home has diminished.

Anthony Denman:
It must be very frustrating for you when vendors don’t listen to your advice on styling and making changes.

Pauline Goodyer:
Are you talking from personal experience?

Anthony Denman:
Might be a bit of that there. Okay, as you talked about, a client of 20 years ago, right? I think that’s pretty cool. I think once off air, too, well off air you mentioned that you’ve actually sold properties for the children of some of your previous vendors, which is pretty amazing.

Pauline Goodyer:
Yeah, that’s really quite recent that that started happening. But it’s a great experience when you see that follow through and the family trusts you to advise and assist the great young things who are doing well and can get into the property market early.

Anthony Denman:
So the long game, right?

Pauline Goodyer:
Yeah. Everything in the world today seems to be so instant. Everyone wants this instant gratification. I’ve always looked at real estate as a long game, whether it’s investing in real estate or as a career. At some stage people you’ve dealt with in the past are going to want to transact again, and ideally I’d love to transact with them again. That just keeps your pipeline moving along. If you think about in 10 years time, and 10 years when you’re young, seems like a long period of time, but believe me, it goes and as you know, it goes fairly quickly and your kids grow up and things start to evolve and move on.

Pauline Goodyer:
You’ve got to look at it as a long term career and continue to nurture those clients, and keep in touch with those clients, because one day they’ll like to use you again for a property deal and it’s likely to be a sale of something.

Anthony Denman:
So true. It’s cumulative, right?

Pauline Goodyer:
Yeah.

Anthony Denman:
It just gets faster every year.

Pauline Goodyer:
Yeah, look I have a daughter at university now, and one in high school, and it just goes way too quick.

Anthony Denman:
Way too quick. It’s hard in those moments where you can be frustrated, you need to just take a deep breath and recognize that the opportunity is ongoing, right?

Pauline Goodyer:
That’s it. Yep.

Anthony Denman:
You ever read that book, it’s an old one, Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus?

Pauline Goodyer:
A long time ago.

Anthony Denman:
Never a truer word was written.

Pauline Goodyer:
Yeah, you even see it when toddlers are playing, how the boys play so differently to the girls.

Anthony Denman:
Yeah, we just had a baby boy. I mean, still a baby, right? But already with his feeding habits, he’s like-

Pauline Goodyer:
Yeah. Feeding habits, playing habits. It’s so different. Girls will sit down in the corner and be chatting and playing with dolls, and the boys are running around going crazy.

Anthony Denman:
How does that translate to the real estate landscape?

Pauline Goodyer:
Oh look, I think being a woman in real estate, I think we understand the family dynamic really well. We understand how women and their husbands and their kids, how they like to live in a home, but ultimately it always comes down to the wife who’s usually the nurturer, carer, and the one that sets up home. I think women are good with connecting with women, when they’re buying or viewing property. I think we have the patience and the ability to read their needs.

Anthony Denman:
Are most of your clients female?

Pauline Goodyer:
No, not at all. No, I have such a mix of clients.

Anthony Denman:
You mentioned you had a funny story about a work/life balance thing. Do you remember that story?

Pauline Goodyer:
Yeah. When I had my first child, who’s now 20, I said to John McGrath, I said, “I’m having this baby in January and I’m probably going to be working from home.” Which was something that these days is nothing, but in those days no one worked at home. I said, “Look, I just want to continue working, but I’m going to be working at home. I’m going to be feeding this baby and juggling everything” which I was.

Pauline Goodyer:
And one day I was pitching for this business and I had a really good rapport with this woman and we’d never met at that stage. But I was pitching to get into this high end penthouse and right at the time when she called me, I’m breastfeeding, and I’m thinking, “Oh God, what do I do here?” I had my earpiece in, so we’re chatting on the phone, and she just stops talking. She said to me, she said, “Pauline, what’s that noise?” She said, “Are you breastfeeding?”

Pauline Goodyer:
I went, of course, I’m not going to lie. I said, “Oh, absolutely, I am. I’m breastfeeding my baby in a couple” … I think it was two or three months old. And I immediately said, “But that doesn’t stop me being able to sell your property.” And she said, “Oh, I really love it. Absolutely love it. Let’s set up a time. I’m going to be in town such and such. I want to meet with you.” And went on to sell the property for her, went on to do other transactions with her as well, and in fact we’ve just completed a further transaction only a couple of months ago. We’ve become friends in the process.

Anthony Denman:
How difficult would it be for John McGrath to get that listing. Okay, so I’ve got to laugh every time I see an email come through from an agent who I’ve never met, who’s telling me that this property is for sale but it’s not on the market.

Pauline Goodyer:
I don’t know who coined that term, off market. You’re either on the market or you’re not on the market.

Anthony Denman:
Correct. Now, I know you do a few, you’ve done a few off market sales. How do you approach that?

Pauline Goodyer:
I call them private sales, because really that’s what they are. Sometimes it works for people to not be advertised on the real estate portals, and they prefer to ask you if you can investigate buyers in your database, or maybe buyers from property nearby that you’ve sold. It doesn’t mean that their property’s not on the market. Their property is on the market, because you need to have an agency agreement signed to be selling any property, so the property is on the market, but the property’s just taking a more private approach to its sale.

Pauline Goodyer:
Sometimes that works, and sometimes it’s the start of the sale process, and then the property moves to the property portals at a later time. All depends again, it’s one of those things that works for the client. You’ve got to be intuitive with the client and see how they like to do things, and advise and see if that’s something that would work better for them.

Anthony Denman:
Why does it work sometimes and sometimes it doesn’t?

Pauline Goodyer:
I think sometimes sellers like to test the market. They like to get a feel for, “All right, we haven’t sold this property for 15 or 20 years. Can we achieve the price that we want for the property?” Often it’s about price.

Anthony Denman:
I’m sure it is. But I do know from firsthand that you have had some success there. Is there a particular property campaign that you’ve done, and success doesn’t have to mean it was the most expensive, is there one that readily comes to mind that was one of your most successful?

Pauline Goodyer:
Yeah, there was one that I sold back around … It was probably back around the very late ’90s. At the time it was a record sale for … It was in Bronte and it was a record sale for Bronte, and I was trying to find a particularly high end property for a buyer. Often it can start with the buyer and you’re trying to find a property for the buyer. I’d heard that these people might be interested in moving so I’m not a big person for door knocking, but I didn’t have a phone number for them. They weren’t listed and I thought, “Well, I’ll just go around and I’ll roll up to the door” which was a long pathway up to a big grand house.

Pauline Goodyer:
I knocked on the door, and this foreboding character opened the door and he was Dutch heritage, and I said … I introduced myself. I said, “Look, I have a particular buyer who’s admired your house and would you be interested in looking to sell?” He looked at me and he screamed at me, “I’m not interested in selling my house.” And he slams the door in my face. I thought, “Okay, oh well. I tried that. That was it.”

Pauline Goodyer:
Went back to the office, about an hour later I get a phone call. It’s this particular person on the phone, who owned the house. I thought, “Oh, my God.” I was so intimidated. He said, “Pauline,” he says … I don’t know if I’m allowed to mention names but I’ll just say, “This is Jack here. I think you better come around and talk to us.” I set up a time and I went around and I was really … I’m not usually nervous, but I was actually really nervous. Because I didn’t know what to expect.

Pauline Goodyer:
I sat down with he and his wife, and we had a great rapport and we talked and he listened and if I can just say this is someone who was a captain of industry in his day, and he was very well renowned businessman in Sydney and Australia. So, he listened and I told him that I thought I did have someone that would be interested in buying his house. He then went on to advise that they weren’t in any hurry, but they were thinking of downsizing because it was too big and it was huge.

Pauline Goodyer:
I’m talking about nearly two acres of land in Bronte, so you probably know the property I’m talking about. We went on to set up appointments and I introduced the buyers to the property and we went on to agree a sale price on a longer settlement arrangement. The deal went through and we became actually quite good friends. I had some very memorable meals with this couple and my husband, and days at the races, and then it was helped them buy their next property. It was a very sad day when I had to attend his funeral. It was a very memorable relationship.

Anthony Denman:
What a great story. So what, you just put on a pair of Nikes and walk up and down the streets now, do you? Knocking on doors.

Pauline Goodyer:
I’ve never been a big doorknocker.

Anthony Denman:
That’s nuts. I’ve never had an agent ever knock on my door. I’ve never even heard of it, really. I get a lot of phone calls, unsolicited phone calls, but you know what? And I know someone who actually … Maybe it’s a thing. In Bronte, right? Maybe it’s something that you should do more often, because I do know someone, a buyer who was that desperate to live in that location, not on the cutaway, but on the other side of anywhere beachfront, really. In Bronte there’s not a lot of them. They went and knocked on doors as a buyer, right? Unsolicited, to say, “I want to buy your house.” And was successful.

Pauline Goodyer:
Wow.

Anthony Denman:
Back in the day. So there you go. Old school door knocking. Love it. Any failed? We all hate it when we get sacked from a job. Anything that you can think of without naming names, or lessons that you’ve learned?

Pauline Goodyer:
I tend to be one that moves on, doesn’t dwell on the past. I can’t say that anything specific comes to mind, except maybe very early in my career when I was pitching for business and I was very green and the rejection at that time was quite difficult. Because there were more experienced people getting business over me, but I learned from that, and I learned how best to interact with people the way that suited me.

Pauline Goodyer:
I think the early days of rejection and not getting the business were probably the hardest. If I don’t get business now, I tend to just move on to the next.

Anthony Denman:
I think so long as if you can … It’s hard. But if you can learn, learn something and in fact, I’m in love with this idea of infinite learning. You can never stop learning.

Pauline Goodyer:
That’s right. I think that’s true now. We’ve got technology evolving all the time, so you have to be continually learning to keep up.

Anthony Denman:
And just on that, any books or mentors or organizations that you subscribe to in terms of learning?

Pauline Goodyer:
Yeah, look, I think there’s a lot of great … Like you’re doing now, podcasts I think are really fantastic. Because what the Real Estate Institute New South Wales involved as well, and they’re offering continual courses and continual learning, and agents being able to get together in groups and listen to great speakers. I think there’s always something that you can pick up from others, whether it’s from people in the industry or whether it’s from people outside of the industry, that are doing well in their capacity.

Pauline Goodyer:
If you pick up one thing, it’s worthwhile. I agree that you’ve got to continually evolve, you’ve got to continually evolve your systems and work with the latest systems. In that, there’s often learning and instruction that comes with it. Reading, look, I’m not one of these agents that reads everyone’s biography and picks up on that. It’s probably not my thing. I’d much rather listen to someone speak, and whether that’s via podcasts, I’m quite enjoying podcasts at the moment. So whether that’s via podcasts or whether that’s actually listening to someone in person. To me, I get a lot more connection with that.

Anthony Denman:
Yeah. Me, too. I find biographies to read, I just find them difficult to connect with, I think is the thing, right? I’d much rather read fiction, but I mean-

Pauline Goodyer:
I was just going to say that. If I’m reading, I’d much rather read fiction. I’d much rather have a fabulous story that takes me away.

Anthony Denman:
I tell you what, though. There was one book that I read which was fantastic, business book. I mean, I’ve read a few, but I think this particular one was called Getting To Yes, and it was a book all about negotiation. Good real estate agents do it anyway. It’s basically the difference between taking the position on bargaining, like, “This is my price and I’m sticking to it,” versus a more creative approach of principal negotiation I think they call it, just coming up with different ideas and ways to get the deal done.

Pauline Goodyer:
I find often when someone says, “That’s my price, I’m not moving on it,” they’re going to negotiate.

Anthony Denman:
Yes. Ain’t that the truth. It was really good. But like I said, probably not teaching you anything, anyway. Back in the day, all we had to do was put three ads in the Wentworth Courier in terms of marketing, right? Way, way back in the day, all you had to do was put some lineage in the Sydney Morning Herald.

Pauline Goodyer:
I remember that. I used to call them block ads. Yeah. They were a bit more expense than just the linage, but they stood out.

Anthony Denman:
And then all the way to digital media, right?

Pauline Goodyer:
Yeah. Look now I think it’s basically all on your smartphone. Where people are seeing property most of the time is 90% of the time it’s on their smartphone. So, that’s the first visual, so whether that’s your portals through our own website, goodyer.com.au, or whether that’s through Domain or whether that’s through Real Estate, that’s where buyers and potential sellers are seeing you. That’s your window today.

Pauline Goodyer:
I don’t believe the window is Wentworth Courier, SMH, although they do play a role. They’re still great publications, Domain’s still a fantastic publication. As is Wentworth Courier, and maybe occasionally I will be advertising in those, but I think first and foremost, it’s there on the phone, in people’s hands, all the time. That’s where they’re connecting with you.

Anthony Denman:
What about your own social media strategies?

Pauline Goodyer:
I find that most people tend to interact well with Instagram, with property. Whether that’s video and whether that’s stills. Facebook, as well, but I think Instagram is an easier portal to be using, and that’s probably the one we have quite good success with. Video about the property, not about the agent. I don’t feature in any of our property videos. Our videos are all about the property we’re selling.

Anthony Denman:
Do you have somebody that you rely on to get that done for you at a particular level?

Pauline Goodyer:
Important to have good people that do photography and your videography, because it makes such an enormous difference to the image that you’re portraying to the market.

Anthony Denman:
Any basic tips on say oceanfront or ocean side properties, in terms of time of day, or?

Pauline Goodyer:
Yeah, I think you do have to look at time of day. This can go for any property. You’ve got to look at light, you’ve got to think about the availability of the people that are going to be looking at the property, so you’re not going to market a property at 10:00 a.m. in the morning, that’s going to be marketed to a family with kids doing Saturday sport. You’re going to position that property as an after lunchtime viewing, so it makes it easier for people to get there.

Pauline Goodyer:
I’m noticing as well, more and more people are busy on Saturday mornings. We’re doing more and more inspections going into the afternoon, because it’s when people are freer. I think times change and the way people are dealing with their weekends has changed, as well. I still don’t like viewings on Sunday. I like to have Sunday free. I think most people like to have Sunday free, as well. Saturdays are still our primary time for viewing, but also happy to arrange something in an early morning during the week, or a late afternoon or an evening, if it’s got a beautiful sunset aspect or visual that buyers can be attracted by.

Anthony Denman:
How do you switch off?

Pauline Goodyer:
I don’t know if you ever switch off in real estate. I think it’s always buzzing in your head. The easiest way is to switch your phone off.

Anthony Denman:
But that’s a scary proposition, isn’t it?

Pauline Goodyer:
My stress relief is really dance. I’ve always been a dancer, contemporary dance and ballet to some extent. At the moment I do a couple of contemporary dance classes every week. I’ve been an iyengar Yoga practitioner for about 25 years, so I practice yoga every day, and when necessary I’ll do yoga classes, as well. That balances me and gives me a chance to really switch off and enjoy something different.

Anthony Denman:
So, we’re at an interesting time of our generation at the moment. I guess the thing with cycles, putting aside COVID for a sec, is that we know they’re coming, right? Every 8 or 10 years usually. The only thing that changes is the cause, the duration, the depth. How are you feeling about our current circumstances?

Pauline Goodyer:
It’s interesting the whole cycle thing, because we’ve experienced cycles of highs in 2003, 2007, to some extent 2010, and then 2017 we’ve had a high market. At the moment we seem to have had the market just really pull back from COVID, but now we’re in this environment of super low interest rates that we’ve never seen before, less and less stock coming onto the market, and we’ve almost got this demand there for certain styles of property, which is pushing the prices up. We’re almost in bubbles to some extent, with availability, where we’ve got buyers with the money to spend, not finding the product, and hence when a product comes to market, we’ve got multiple people that want to buy that one property which is forcing the price up.

Pauline Goodyer:
I don’t believe we’re in a bad market. I believe we’re in a little bit of a flat market, but certain types of real estate continue to see spikes because of low supply, but high demand.

Anthony Denman:
Well, that’s really good. I think that’s a very positive and optimistic point of view on our current circumstances. It’s a lot more realistic I think, than what the media would like to portray it as being. Pauline, I really appreciate you taking the time to do this.

Pauline Goodyer:
Oh, no. It’s a pleasure to do this, Anthony, and be here. It’s really interesting. It’s interesting being able to talk about experiences that I’ve had through my career, to help someone out there as well, who’s starting in the industry.

Anthony Denman:
Yeah. I think that’s the idea. If anybody can take any of these insights and gives them some confidence, I think having the confidence to start your own brand is a huge one, right? I mean, real estate’s a fairly risky business at the best of times, even when you’re working for someone else, but to go out and to have the confidence to start your own brand I think is a wonderful thing. You’ve done a terrific job at that. What’s the best way for people to get in touch with you?

Pauline Goodyer:
You can get in touch with me via mobile, 0411 521 888, via email, paulineg@goodyer.com.au, or send me a text, drop by the office, say hello. 261 Oxford Street, Paddington.

Anthony Denman:
Come up and knock on the door, right?

Pauline Goodyer:
Come up and say hi.

Anthony Denman:
That’s great. Thanks, mate.

Pauline Goodyer:
Okay. Thanks.